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[Thygrrr]

I believe the Leather Wolf is a very sophisticated suit.

However, it also looks very fetish-y, especially with the metal rings on the torso, and partly because of the dark and glossy leather.

It makes me feel uneasy to know this suit was on TV and was photographed with kids. The suit suit elicited the statement "what the heck is this guy supposed to be?" from my (non-furry) girlfriend.

In my opinion, the leather wolf suit crosses the line of decency a lot further than, say, wearing a dog collar with a leash attached, which I also find questionable to the extent of agreeing with the ban.

This is, obviously, my very subjective impression. I understand it is hard to draw any lines, and that the main difficulty is to not over-ban (and stifle creativity and self-expression, highly valued in the furry community) rather than occasionally under-banning (and accepting that there's always going to be something that squicks some portions of the audience).

I do think, however, that if a suit squicks your average "full-blooded" furries (people who like multiple aspects of Furryness, e.g. art, suiting and the lifestyle at the same time), it might me crossing the line.

[Camrath]

Speaking as someone who has been referenced a few times in this thread, I'd like to suggest an attitude of 'live and let live'.

I was the guy in the zentai lion suit (Camrath) and the zentai gnoll suit with armour (Wandering Monster), as well as the lion bodypainter and the one that organised the British Bodypainting Invasion with my two young disciples (Tux the white tiger and Skye the sparkledog). This was set up with close communication with the security team (of which I was also an active member) and indeed I made sure that aside from getting advanced permission for my costumes that I also got them vetted 'in the flesh' by either Gyro or Dhary on each costuming day.

Costuming at EF was the most fun I've had in a very long time, and I loved how accepting the great majority of the con attendees were of people trying something different. What many of you may not be aware of is that face/bodypainting has a longer history than fursuiting in the UK- back when the UK community was first forming in the late 90s there were no full fursuits in general circulation, and so we would use facepaint, bodypaint and partials to express ourselves. I've been quietly campaigning to bring back bodypainting as an art and expression style for the past five years, and this EF I would generally consider a resounding success on this front!

[Thygrrr]

Thank you Camrath, you do have a point and I'm quite inclined to agree now.

[Camrath]

Thank you Camrath, you do have a point and I'm quite inclined to agree now.

Thank YOU. It's a pleasant surprise indeed to hear someone on the internet say that!

[SenGrisane]

I found the leather armor quite cool and I never once thought about it in a sexual content. And I have a perverted mind

[Drift]

In my opinion, the leather wolf does not look fettisch-y at all.
Joining plenty of LARP events myself, first thing I thought when seeing that outfit was:"OMG, what a cool piece of full boddy leather armour". I would never had the idea of seeing it as fetish gear if you would not have mentioned it here. Rings, bolts, leather strips and -scraps are common materials when creating amour.

Having that suit running around at a furry event is another pair of shoes, though. I must confess, that this fact made me frown as well. I guess some people visiting EF can feel offended of the suit because it stuck out of the crowd, had no fur at all, and people who have nothing to do with medival/fantasy/larp stuff might associate all kind of "leather gear clothing" with "fetish".

Overall, I really liked that piece, did not feel offended at all and feel not worried about it beeing in the news.

[djem]

I personally wasn't shocked that much by the leather suit, but more by the bodypainted guy. I remember seeing two of those guys at the piano bar and I really felt like "what the hell do those almost naked guy's do here??!".
I couldnt imagine myself sitting in a bar with just boxers - it's just wrong/weird to me.

And if it's to supposed to be some kind of art, I'm sorry then, but for example bondage, leashes and so on, are also sometimes considered as "art" yet still not allowed in public places at EF.

[Klepsydra]

As someone who both fursuits and facepaints (and have bodypainted in the past) I very much think that EF should be inclusive rather than exclusive whenever possible. There is no One True Way of expressing your inner furriness, neither should there be. I thought that the mix of fursuiters, bodypainters, zentai costumers, the leather wolf, people with tails and ears, and people who just looked normal (well nearly!) was exactly how EF should be.

[Camrath]

I personally wasn't shocked that much by the leather suit, but more by the bodypainted guy. I remember seeing two of those guys at the piano bar and I really felt like "what the hell do those almost naked guy's do here??!".
I couldnt imagine myself sitting in a bar with just boxers - it's just wrong/weird to me.

And if it's to supposed to be some kind of art, I'm sorry then, but for example bondage, leashes and so on, are also sometimes considered as "art" yet still not allowed in public places at EF.

I for one can't imagine myself sitting around in a full fursuit- sweaty, uncomfortable and wrong and weird to me. Some may consider it to be 'art' or 'performance' but everyone knows people really only have sex in them...

Change it around, and maybe you'll see my point. (Note, not all of the above is my actual opinion on fursuits- I love looking at them, but couldn't stand to wear one) One man's oddness is another man's normality or comfort zone. In the case of myself and other bodypainters it's a way to get closer to our totem animals, to provide a different form of performance art, to just let go and become part of the crazy scene that is furry.

Oh and in addition each of us was wearing more than 'just boxers', and was completely within the con's dress codes and behaviour guidelines.

[Keenora]

I think, after reading the last messages, we should come back to the main part, the feedback. I think this conversation goes too far away from the Feedback-Topic, doesnt it? o.o

[Bigwig]

What was the subject then - purple feedback? Sorry to spoil the hue when this turns into a much more interesting discussion about suiter policy with even the chairman asking for feedback...

Bodysuits depend a lot how the guy wearing it looks like in panties. So far I was always lucky seeing just sexy lean furs wearing them. Still I consider it a major danger for fursuiters to run into such a guy and end with an copy of it on the suit. It should be perfectly clear that it is the reponsibility of these persons to keep an eye on their environment or when they are distracted by talk they may even need a spotter to avoid any unwanted impacts - suiters with their limited vision cannot do this. But it's just a general fear, everything was fine this year.

And what is wrong with the fur looking in my eyes like a heavily plated chinese warrior in leather outfit. Might have been even a furry wearing it if yor imagination suffices. Can't be so difficult to "explain" this in the context of Kung Fu Hustle and a main-stage with something like the chinese wall in the background. I found this costume great as well as the decission to allow it. If people lack fantasy even discussing "roleplaying anthropomorphic animal characters" can get you caught, not a reason not to do it. Maybe just explaining special allowed suits here, in the con book or at a board in the lobby might suit everyfur's need.

[Bigwig]

Ok we talk about negative or less negative emotions your policies imply then and you cheetah (posting order changed) eh well... read it - I hope so  

You noticed I didn't really discuss them much but just pointed to me feelings being confronted with these policies  being applied to the Con (sorry for my inconsiderate writing)

[Camrath]

Look, I can see that I may have stirred up an untintentional hornet's nest when I didn't mean to. Perhaps another thread to discuss this topic is in order? Or failing that, please do feel free to PM or email me. I don't bite. Much.

As the only zentai suiter at the con, and also the organiser of the bodypainting group I'd be very happy to talk openly to anyone with any questions, concerns or (non-flaming) opinions on the matter. It's something I genuinely consider an art-form, and my intentions were always to open up the eyes of those who might be interested in giving it a try themselves, rather than to shock or horrify.

Last post in this thread by me.

[Cheetah]

Can we please keep this an actual feedback thread? We will take everything written here very seriously - but please understand that the EF board of directors can and will not discuss policies in public. We're a large convention, our focus lies on what furries have in common. Sometimes that means that certain special interests need to take second place - and there's no foolproof way to come up with a 100% rational decision that will make everyone happy. Rest assured, that there's never any ill intent on our side - we just want people to get along.

Philosophical discussions about our policies are not very helpful - there are 1000 attendees, and 1000 different opinions - and most con-goers have a hard time relating to the social challenges organizers have to face when running such a large event.

What helps is feedback about things that acutally happened at the con, and what the consequences were for you personally.

[BluePaw]

indeed the leather suit was something of a "wtf" thing even for me, cool, yes, but there were a few things that were slight to obvious "fetish" gear with it, like the leather arm-restraints/handcuffs at the waist, could be exchanged for an actual sword belt or something? and some of the rings sitting in obvious possitions that an actual armour wouldn't have them in. and then a more practical issue of the claws on the boots that might not, even if only ?leather? be very nice to get accidentally stomped or scrached by. didn't really stop him to check what they were, but they cought my eye.

when it comes to body painters, taking it to the more public perspective, there are commercials (at least in sweden) more offencive then that, especially about one of the SONY mobiles were a guy runs around in only speedoes. and lots of TV-shows contain worse stuff as well.